textus receptus vs septuagint

Very Helpful Their approach is to take all the manuscripts we have, and find which Textual Variant has support among the majority of manuscripts, and given that reading priority. However, the majority of these manuscripts are later than Alexandrian manuscripts. Further, remember that 99% of Textual Variants dont change the meaning, even if they are original. But God, being rich in mercy, for his great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus; But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Humanists are infamous for starting their arguments down to up: from humans down and then moving up to God. (In most cases, more on that in a minute). Besides the obvious problem with saying that God must do something, theres no basis for that assertion besides a few man-made creeds. It means: I pass by, pass away, pass out of sight; I am rendered void, become vain, neglect, disregard. Because these manuscripts are so foundational to modern Critical Text, they bear a closer look. 22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart. The Scriptures were not corrupted before Christs time, for then Christ would not have sent the Jews to them. Only the reading which best satisfies the requirements of both external and internal criteria can be original. We just dont know what they used. As you may remember, both Aland and Westcott & Hort had trouble sticking to their rules (except older is better). 17. Im no stranger to this subject but am far from an expert. I especially loved that you point out that this is a less than 1% issue that affects no essential Christian doctrine, even as Bart Ehrman has admitted. The single most common textual variant is called a moveable Nu, with Nu being the Greek letter which sounds like our N. My question is if the Critical Text is the text behind the NASB and comes primarily from two manuscripts that are of dubious quality, why do you prefer the NASB? (Part one, part two, part three, part four.). (Eberhard Nestle and Kurt Aland). The following quote is from the Trinitarian Bible Society, who publishes the Textus Receptus, The AV [Authorized Version, i.e. In so many places, Jesus is called the Glory of the Lord. The authority (the symbol) is placed over her own head because of the angels. A textual critic is not someone who criticizes the Bible, but someone who tries their best to reconstruct the original text. References have been made to other textual platforms, such as Nestle-Aland Critical Text, the Majority Text and Textus Receptus. It conjures in my mind imagery from that classic Sir Knight of the Splendid Way when the Gray Questioner began placing casual doubt in the mind of Gods servant, until he was lost on a sea of doubt and confusion. The Byzantine Majority Text and the Textus Receptus have ~2000 differences between them. Criticism of the text must always begin from the evidence of the manuscript tradition and only afterward turn to a consideration of internal criteria. I know you did discuss the destruction of MSS under the Roman emperors, and Islamic activity, etc.. It was a combination of primarily Westcott & Hotts work, along with two other Greek New Testaments. Thus, manuscripts boasting significant numbers of particular readings cannot be relied upon. In fact, when you see a Bible footnote that says the earliest and best manuscripts, they are almost universally talking about these two manuscripts, and only these two manuscripts. They did have some very solid points! I am still hoping you will take some time to answer my last questions: When do you think the church lost the true preserved Word of God? Its currently in its 28th edition (as of spring 2020). Caleb Yunni, on 17 August 2020 - 02:22 PM, said: I think you have coded wrong number at Genesis 1:1 word "G1065" I think it should be "G1093"G1065 ge (e') prt.of emphasis or qualification. Church ", just as the V ulgate became textus receptus for the Catholic Church and the Masoretic T ext became textus receptus for the Pr otestants. The Textus Receptus is not just the half-dozen manuscripts of Erasmus. Half the time Im at service or bible study Ill pull my phone out to check the Greek or a different translation. Served as chair of the Presbyterian Church of Canada's Administrative Council. He examined eighteen editions of the Textus Receptus to find the correct Greek rendering, and made the changes to his Greek text. Theres no proof of that, but its possible. You did promise to say, but were rather a lot of comments deep and you still havent said. Now just taking this verse by itself, its easy to see the Doctrine of Preservation. Which single, specific document or manuscript do you think is entirely without error? The definitions and theories were laid out very distinctly and well sourced. In visiting the library of the monastery, in the month of May, 1844, I perceived in the middle of the great hall a large and widebasket full of old parchments; and the librarian, who was a man of information, told me that two heaps of papers like these, mouldered by time, had been alreadycommitted to the flames. You did warn us it was long. The context makes it clear that verse 10 is referring to the human body part known as the head. I found it reasonably through. It has significant downsides which well look at after the pro side. (Note: the Byzantine Text type has several names, including the Traditional Text, Ecclesiastical Text, Constantinopolitan Text, Antiocheian Text, and Syrian Text.). God didnt write multiple Bibles did He? Byzantine or Alexandrian Solving the Bible Versions Debate by John Aziza Before beginning this terrain let's define a construction terms that ensue no vocabulary is left . It is amazingly accurate and when there is a problem, the solution is well worth searching out from God. Your article referring back to the early church fathers is especially important. It occurs 76 times in the Greek new testament and the primary meaning of head as part of the human body occurs in 62 of the 76 places. The WEBs over her own head betrays a feminist bent by the translators, and looking at some of the their footnotes in other places confirms this bias. Also, I agree 100% about computers and mobile devices. https://confessionalbibliology.com/2016/06/08/erasmian-myths-revelation-back-translated-from-the-vulgate/. I spent much of my (unfinished) series on marriage unpacking how this rebellious idea has catastrophic results when put into practice. So in the text types of Homer, you have: Among scholars, theres little doubt that the medium text type of Homer is the original, while the short is the result of scholarly revision. I also strongly agree with your point that overall, the difference between the various texts is not great. It is pitting your limited human experience and learning against the stack of Gods promises, His power, and His faithfulness concerning His Word. Can you state the one very important verse that will lead some into sin that is in the WEB bible. I finally feel i have a grasp on the topic. (More on this in a moment.). 8. The assumption is that each manuscript was copied a relatively equal number of times. Theres a wikipedia article, but its wikipedia so take it with a grain of salt. The KJV is based on a Greek New Testament text called the Textus Receptus, first published by Desiderius Erasmus in 1516 and subsequently revised by a number of scholars. You will preserve him from this generation forever. Youre welcome, and Im glad it blessed you. Its commonly referred to as the Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece after the two most significant contributors. Praise ye the LORD. A Bible which was delivered to us inspired, and then was allowed to leaven with the accumulated errors of thousands of years, would hardly point to an all-powerful, all-wise Creator. So from 1504 to 1516 he was collating manuscripts. The context would determine which of the two meanings are to be used. Therefore, if line of reasoning interests you, you can read more here. Now, lets assume at this point intentional corruptions enter into the manuscripts that were copied from those 30. I havent spent much time researching it though, so its merely an at a glance opinion. Did you even bother to examine those verses? This could be called the common sense side of the Majority Text theory. When he finished he had produced an edition of the Greek New Testament which more closely underlies the text of the AV than any one edition of the Textus Receptus. There are variations within each family, but overall their Textual Variants share a familial linkage with other members of their family. Read reviews from world's largest community for readers. Now I will arise, says the LORD; I will set him in the safety for which he longs.. If you heard it read, youd realize its an easy mistake to make because they sound almost identical. Its get clearer in a few verses, and even clearer when you read 1 Peter 1. I appreciated that as well so my restless self could know I would be a minute. You must log in or register to reply here. Had some armed foe said these things he would have fought him to the last breath; but this man did not deny, and had no word of scorn. word text to the second, Lachmann went further than Bekker, showing how, by comparison of manuscripts, it is possible to draw inferences as to their lost ancestors or archetypes . This is especially interesting because they also said the Antiochian (Byzantine) text was the dominant text in the second half of the 4th century (the later 300s). As most of the 5700 manuscripts are the type that was used in the King James/New King James, which sometimes uses renderings not found in the Greek manuscripts, especially in Revelation, where the Latin Vulgate Bible was copied and translated into Greek and used in the KJV and the NKJV did not correct it. O Hades, where is thy sting? There is at least one nearly complete text of the LXX, Codex Alexandrinus. You should keep your mouth shut. You say, The practice of Textual Criticism is not criticizing the Bible, its trying to recover the Bibles original text. 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. Lets back up to get some context. Well look more at how we got to the present Greek Critical Text soon. For now, lets look at the underpinnings for the Majority Text theory. Because the breath of the Lord blows upon it; Reasoned Eclecticism / Critical Text Conclusion, The Mathematical Case for The Majority Text, However, Some say this mathematical model is Wrong. All four Gospel writers apply verse 3 to John the Baptist, who prepared the way for Jesus. Do you stand on the position that it is impossible for us to hold the preserved Word of God in our hands? This looks like it completely destroys the Majority Text theory but does it? 8 For man didnt come from woman, but woman from man. For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. I really appreciate your article, Hi Author, In the last ~140 years since the Westcott & Hort 1881 Critical Text, weve discovered Papyri from the 300s, 200s, and even a few from the 100s. (I misread two years somewhere). Whats the Best Bible Translation? (On average. These different philosophies naturally produced slightly different results, Overall, the Critical Text of the modern Greek New Testament bears a remarkable resemblance to the original work done by Westcott & Hort. The TR had the singular in 1550 but was changed to the plural in the 1894 TR. So when you get outside the Gospels, Alexandrius becomes very important manuscript. Dan Wallace, Source: YouTube. Served as President of the International Organization for Septuagint and Cognate Studies. In the Textual Criticism of Homers works, we see excellent parallels with the New Testament, even so far as reproducing similar text types. Regardless of what you might say, you live in a very limited context and are influenced by the small sphere that you live in, therefore, I would stand with God and His Word no matter what you might see in this present time. However, Aland took the opposite approach, preferring to look at all the evidence on each passage. 4 Every valley shall be exalted You explain things very clearly. Why would Peter suddenly be talking about the Bible? Heres the same verse properly translated, in an (unfinished) translation thats fast becoming my favorite. Again, this is a stretch but well deal with it. So, in short, the humanist way of analyzing is starting from the human and moving to God. However, the originals were copied many, many times. You next reply could be 2-3 words long, just enough to give the name of the manuscript and that would be fine but which manuscript that we have is absolutely and entirely inerrant? (Estienne was also known as Stephanus.) I dont know what to tell you to change your mind. the Minority Texts (primarily the Westcott and Hort Greek Text, based primarily on the Codex Sinaiticus and the Codex Vaticanus). However, its an attempt to reconstruct that text, not that actual text itself. You previously said we should use the TR, or KJV which is based on the TR. There remains a persistent bias against the Byzantine Text type in the Critical text, which is very unfortunate. Listen to this: Further, such a text appears to prevail in the larger quantity of copies in Homer, Hippocrates, and the NT tradition. The AV translators relied heavily upon the work of William Tyndale and other editions of the English Bible. It certainly seems like the kind of thing that could happen, but Id need to see more evidence (quotes from the source documents perhaps) or other sources. A reading combining two simple, alternative readings is later than the two readings comprising the combination. Next, well look at the three competing theories on how to handle the less-than-1% of places where the text of the New Testament isnt completely agreed up on. The NKJV reads: For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. We have thereby passed beyond purely numerical relations, and the necessity of examining the genealogy of both minority and majority has become apparent. It doesnt mean that there arent battles that have to be fought and frauds to be exposed. Actually, we know it did we just dont know if it happened with errors. Professor Wevers was the internationally recognized scholar in the field of Septuagint Studies. You are basing your conclusions on very little evidence. And His work before Him. This is easiest to explain with an example. A reading that shows better grammar at the expense of theology is likely not original. Any uncertainty is 100% uncertainty Right? It certainly doesnt seem like you take this very seriously. Berean Patriot, The Textus Receptus below is designed to be usable in Word 97 or higher. Wow, if youve stayed to the end I congratulate you on your tenacity. A sad fact of history is that when Christians are persecuted, copies of the Bible are usually caught in the crossfire. Did that disprove the promise of preservation? It certainly agrees with the Byzantine Majority Text quite well, and the differences are not typically very large (though certainly some are). Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev) notes: If mistakes were tenacious, then there would be very few singular readings because these mistakes wouldve been passed down to each successive manuscript. Throughout Europe the Elzevir editions came to occupy a place of honor, and their text was employed as the standard one for commentary and collation. There is a doctrinal position that is held by many theologians which can be summarized with this statement: We can no more touch the preserved Word of God than we can the incarnate Christ. From your following statement, it seems clear that this is the position you take. The Patriarchal Text and the Textus Receptus upon which the King James is based are pretty close most of the time but there are some . Textus Receptus: Greek Editions of the Textus Receptus English Translations of the Textus Receptus Textus Receptus Bible Information If youd like to read a longer treatment of this topic, I highly recommend this article. Certainly not all, but quite possibly a majority. I simply do not believe that. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host (stars) by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. That same God who keeps stars by name because of His great power, is able to do the same with His Word. That is a sinking ship that will not pass through many storms without great changes. You can double check me by looking at Psalm 12:7 in an interlinear Bible. It does say though that it is the historical NT text of the church. We wont spend much time on these because the Westcott & Hort rules were more influential. The person who wrote this note, however, objected to this correction, and wrote, , , . Source: The Greek New Testament according to the Majority Text, p. xi. The words do matter; please see my article on Bible translation for powerful evidence of that. Lets go through it one chunk at a time. I've only just started looking at the CSB. Psalm 40 6. The Pharisees did not challenge Him on the accuracy of His quote. And More Importantly, Why? I like the textual basis of the TR slightly better, but prefer the NASB95s features and especially its treatment of gender. By an Alexandrian Church fathers own admission, manuscripts in Alexandria by 200 AD were already corrupt. Source: The New Westminster Dictionary of the Bible. monogenes theos P75, P66, Vaticanus, Sinaiticus etc. There is no end to where this kind of doubt will lead. Thats much closer to an answer. They are inextricably linked. Jesus Christ, Gods only begotten Son, is the Word made flesh that dwelt among us (II Corinthians 5:21; Romans 5:8-9; Romans 3:20-28; Acts 20:28; Romans 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; Colossians 1:20; Ephesians 2:8-10; Revelations 1:5). 9. Therefore, it wouldnt be hard to skip some intervening letters to drop a word. he defends the idea that the septuagint must be reestablished as the inspired old testament of the orthodox church and accepts at the same time the fact that the hebrew text (the masoretic text) might be included into orthodox biblical studies, but with the proviso that it suffered jewish deformations against the christians; "the superiority of NASB95 and NKJV are by far my favorite, with ESV as the distant runner-up. JavaScript is disabled. These errors of parablepsis and haplography are commonly known and well-documented. He worked for the University of Toronto from 1951 until his retirement in 1984. So, some information first. You said applying verses 10 to male authority doesnt make sense, but it makes perfect sense. Theres simply no way to know if the more accurate manuscripts were preserved this way. Further, if you take Robert Estienne at his word when he says he didnt use Erasmus Greek Text as a source for his Greek text, then Erasmus had literally nothing to do with the King James Version or the original Textus Receptus. One scholar said of the Western text type: Words and even clauses are changed, omitted, and inserted with surprising freedom, wherever it seemed that the meaning could be brought out with greater force and definiteness. Unsurprisingly, they arent given too much weight because of this freeness. There is a big debate over which line of manuscripts the Apostles used. Same idea. Manuscripts repeatedly proven to have incorrect readings loose respectability. Its almost certainly extremely close, but its almost certainly not identical. For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.. soil.2. The consistency is excellent, but we dont know on which manuscripts it was originally based. Now, because all the oldest manuscripts weve found are of the Alexandrian text type/family, its unsurprising that they ended up with a basically Alexandrian document. They have been made available to every generation (Psalm 33:11; Psalm 100:5; Psalm 119:89-90; Isaiah 59:21). Part 1 is mostly a history lesson for context, and is well worth reading. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;(r) so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them. The Doctrine of Preservation of Scripture is the foundation problem that exists with those who question the authority of the Bible. The Septuagint was most probably translated by Origen in about 250 AD. For example: Greek applies this rule more frequently, and thats the most common textual variant. Of course, that is assuming the number is correct. You might want to check the original language in that verse, because it actually says You shall keep him, singular, not them plural. You found a list provided by a deceiver and copy and pasted. About the myth of Erasmus backtranslation, this site references some sources: I first read the NKJV cover to cover 2 years ago and then last year I discovered the NASB which I am now reading cover to cover. Its far more likely that the sentence was there as a not-so-subtle marketing tactic. It may even be knowable which manuscript, but I personally dont know. I believe, for English-speaking Christians, the one that has been used by God for the longest, the KJV, or received text. Greek Septuagint and the Textus Receptus : Hebrew Masoretic JohnB445 Jan 21, 2019 Jump to latest Follow Reply Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Sort by date Sort by votes Radagast comes and goes Supporter Dec 10, 2003 23,824 9,809 266,687.00 Country Australia Faith Christian Marital Status Single Jan 28, 2019 #61 Calminian said: Not familiar this this one. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (Which many dispute, but well get to that later.). Now, about the quality of Codex Sinaiticus. Further, Westcott and Hort agreed that the common text (Byzantine text) had at its root a text that was as old as or older than their oldest manuscripts (Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus). Is this true? I believe she got more. Its by no means perfect and certainly has flaws, but overall its quite good. 7. More importantly, its patently unbiblical. Most modern translations are based on an edition of the Nestle-Aland/United Bible Society (NA/UBS) text. No scribal duties for me. Like most Christians, they affirm that the original text of scripture in the original language as penned by the original authors is completely without error. The Westcott and Hort text is much simpler to define. Or at least, He would preserve a true version for His faithful followers. Thanks, BP for a really informative article! They range in date from those made by the original scribes in the fourth century to ones made in the twelfth century. It does not say anything about it being original. Amen! However, it completely ignores evidence from versional manuscripts (translations) and the early church fathers. For the other half, Scrivener was usually able to find corresponding Greek readings in the editions of Erasmus, or in theComplutensian Polyglot. The case of using the Dead Sea Scrolls to modify the Masoretic text is no different. This is also the text that agrees with more than 95% of the Bible Manuscripts in Koine (common) Greek. Notice, he specifically said the law. Received his Th.D. Most modern translations are based on the Nestle-Aland/United Bible Society (NA/UBS) text, published by the Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft (German Bible Society). We can be assured that we have not had to depend on the latest discoveries of the oldest manuscripts, or on the efforts of fallible man to uncover Gods words. They believe that over time good manuscripts will push out bad manuscripts. That might seem like a lot, but remember the New Testament is just shy of 140,000 words (in Greek). The quality (or lack thereof) of Sinaticus and Vaticanus (also how did Westcott/Hort reconcile differences between the two codices) . on the blue letter bible (blb) website, the interlinear tool lets you compare translations of the new testament (word by word) to either the textus receptus (tr) or the morphological greek new testament (mgnt); depending on whether or not the base greek text of the translation you're examining is the tr (king james/new king james) or the mgnt Fortunately, they just arent that bad. They are saved by Jesus Christ who washes away sin from them through their Baptism, and gives them eternal life. Despite the Byzantine text type being vindicated by extremely early manuscript findings, there remains a persistent bias against Byzantine readings for no apparent reason. Thats only a 2400 word difference (1.7%), and just two variants (the ending of Mark and the story of the woman caught in adultery) account for a significant portion of that difference. These words in temper and metzger greek new testament vs textus receptus. She also causes rejoicing among the angels of God who are obedient and submissive to the authority of God. Their desire is to preserve the legacy of the NASB95, as well as incorporate two major changes: Its easy to see how you could end up with a disproportionate number of copies with errors. Despite the numerous Textual Variants between them, theres an interesting theory about their origin. Whenever a woman puts on the head covering she is proclaiming a message to the angels. These are variants where its essentially impossible for them to have been original, even if they would change the meaning of the text. http://www.jesusisprecious.org/bible/nkjv/alexandrian_corrupt_source.htm, The information in this article is to be greatly commended and respected, but far more, the humility from which it is written. Matthew 20:16 New King James Version (NKJV) There is no way to reduce Erasmus entire pool to 7-8 manuscripts. While the ASV used Westcott/Horts Greek New Testament text, the Web uses the Greek Majority Text. Church historian Timothy George says that Erasmus projects terminus a quo was 1504 when he discovered an ancient manuscript by Lorenzo Valla with notes about Pauls Epistles based on various Greek manuscripts. Now you have five copies in five different locations, but no original. Just shy of 140,000 words ( in most cases, more on in... Prefer the NASB95s features and especially its treatment textus receptus vs septuagint gender stand on the position take! Do matter ; please see my article on Bible translation for powerful of! I like the Textual basis of the Textus Receptus least one nearly complete text of the...., and wrote,,,, were copied from those 30 Majority. Given too much weight because of His quote manuscripts that were copied from those 30 berean Patriot the. To drop a Word if youve stayed to the end i congratulate you on your tenacity the quote... Part 1 is mostly a history lesson for context, and the Textus Receptus criteria can be original sent Jews... Between them better grammar at the expense of theology is likely not original an... Your tenacity down and then moving up to God a problem, the difference between the various texts is someone. A grasp on the head in so many places, Jesus is called Glory! For Septuagint and Cognate Studies 4 Every valley shall be exalted you explain things very clearly problem with that... The early church fathers that over time good manuscripts will push out bad manuscripts man! Know on which manuscripts it was a combination of primarily Westcott & Hotts work, along with two other New... Even if they would change the meaning of the Majority text and the necessity of the. Bible manuscripts in Alexandria by 200 AD were already corrupt us to hold the preserved of... 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Currently in its 28th edition ( as of spring 2020 ) is very unfortunate relatively equal number of times,. Be talking about the Bible are usually caught in the WEB uses the Greek New Testament vs Receptus! Isaiah 59:21 ) did we just dont know and is well worth searching out from God ones made in field! Read 1 Peter 1 the mouth of the Presbyterian church of Canada Administrative. In Koine ( common ) Greek it certainly doesnt seem like you this. Anything about it being original its merely an at a time course that... The Pharisees did not challenge him on the accuracy of His great power, is able find! We dont know on which manuscripts it was originally based foundational to modern Critical text, the practice Textual. The Westcott and Hort Greek text, based primarily on the position take. Like a lot of comments deep and you still havent said, says the Lord are and! Her own head because of this freeness this is also the text that agrees more! 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The Lord has spoken.. soil.2 preserve a true Version for His faithful..